Jesse Horne 1854-1934

Among my matches at 67 markers is a Mr Horne (removing his first name for privacy, as I’ve sent him email but haven’t heard from him as of yet), whose terminal relative is Jesse Horne 1854-1934. I didn’t pay much attention to this match, in part because it was a lesser match at 37 markers, with a diff of 3 at 37. At 67 markers, though, the diff is 4 and the match is thus closer.  So, I sent the man an email and then looked up what I could on Ancestry.

Jesse Horne 1854-1934 is matched to a man in the 1880 census in Shelby County, Tennessee. He is married at this time. In 1900 he is in the same county and state and now has several children. Unlike the previous census, they note that he can read and write and he says he was born in Kentucky. He claims his mother and father were born in Kentucky as well.

The same Ancestry source has a 1850 US Census entry for a possible father. This ‘Jessee Hornes’ is living in Perry County, TN, but a closer read of the census data shows that this Jessee Hornes claims to have been born in TN, about 1820.

In 1820 there are a fair number of Myers in Tennessee. By 1840 most of them are gone, to Missouri for the most part. But I can’t eliminate the possibility that a Cove Creek Myers (or close relative) fathered this Jessee Hornes, or alternatively, was the parent of Jessee Hornes’s father. In fact the few times I’ve looked at a TIP calculation of these possibilities, those odds were substantial.

And if the father is actually born in Kentucky, I’ll note, as just one example, that David Crockett’s autobiography speak of various traveling Myers selling wares out of Greene County, Tennessee.

To note, this match may be a product of luck. If I had any advice for a male Horne who is a direct descendant of Jesse 1854-1934, it would be to get an accurate YDNA haplotype. A P312 test at YSEQ is pretty cheap. Z39300+ tests don’t exist in isolation, and someone would have to decide if the $600 or so for a BIGY would be worth it. And if the Horne males are P312+, they can join the P312 project at ftDNA, and then let the experts there guide the search. I will note that my line of Myers YDNA is rare. If we are matched, it will stick out like a sore thumb on the BIGY test.

Update: While I didn’t initially realize it, ‘Horn’ can be a German name. Horn and variants of Horn (Hornung, Hornberger, etc) can be parsed from Pennsylvania German Pioneers. My first try picked up about 92 males with ‘Horn’ or some variant thereof. So one possibility, which I hadn’t initially considered, is that a common ancestor, if he exists, would be found on the other side of the Atlantic. A German Horn would come to the states in the 18th century, and migrate to Kentucky in the late 18th, early 19th century.

Y111 results. The meaning of laborer in the 1772 tax rolls.

Both Rayedene Graves, who manages Artie Myers DNA samples, and I extended our YDNA STR markers to 111 markers, and the results are that we match each other to 107/111 markers. We both match to Ross in 107/111 markers. The ftDNA TIP calculator can get us some indication of how close we are. To make things simple, I’ll note that the odds for being William Myers Sr’s son or grandson is somewhere between 44 and 52% and the odds of being his first cousin once removed, or closer, is between 74 and 79%. This is closer than the 50% per first 4 possible matches we were assuming before. If I recall right, the odds that John Myers b 1742 is Charles Sr’s father is about 30%, that being his father’s brother or closer is 60%, and that being the father’s first cousin or thereabouts is also in the 70s. This is a fairly closely knit group.

At this point, I suspect that both John Myers b 1742 and William Sr come from Germany, perhaps on the same boat and as part of the same group. Again, they could have come separately, but both would have been minors during the peak of German immigration and likely bound (indentured) after arrival, to pay for the trip.

The book “Beyond Philadelphia” has a section on the Lehigh Valley, which discusses the 1772 tax rolls in Northampton. They note that the occupation lab’r is most likely a farm hand. This now leads to the question of who in Tennessee (or perhaps Philadelphia, if Charles was the son of a cousin that stayed behind) trained Charles in smithing. I notice a number of apprenticeships were starting at the ages of 9 and 11 in those days, so looking in the Greene County minutes during the time span 1798-1800 would not hurt.

DNA rarity and Myers YDNA

This was a concept I wasn’t entirely familiar with, the idea that someone’s STR data set could be so rare that you don’t match anybody. This was striking enough I started looking for ways to measure rarity, and found this link.  On this site, they have a spreadsheet you can download, and I fed my Dad’s Y67 values into this sheet. Results were interesting enough, to say the least.

wheaton_average

One of the rarity measures is called a Wheaton Average, and I calculated this for my Dad’s YDNA. At 12 markers it was 28.7, at 25 it was 22.7. At 37 it was 16.4, and at 67 it was 11.1. Looking at the chart, in order that would mean, Rare, Rare, Uncommon, Average.

This is the deal. Rare at 12 means rare, period. Same with 25. And if someone can’t begin to match you at Y25, it’s not as if the match gets any better at 67.

This article by Roberta Estes (back in 2012, so with a much smaller pool of tested folks) is illuminating. She says,

The average person has about eight hundred 12 marker matches, just under 200 25 marker matches, fourteen 37, thirteen 67 and not quite one 111 marker match. There still aren’t a lot of folks who have tested at the 111 marker level. The good news is that if you have a 111 marker match, it’s generally a very solid genealogical match.  Most people use the 111 marker test to resolve 67 marker matches or to find line marker mutations within a family to identify specific ancestral lines.

To make the point, my Dad and I have 9 matches at Y25.

Yfull results and YDNA calculations at the 50% level.

Yfull emailed me and my results are in.  Yfull calls me R-PH2278, which is their labeling of Z39300. This is a slow outfit, and there will be more results in coming months. I’m especially looking forward to these guys digging out the STRs they can fetch from the BIGY data.

yfull_summary_panel

I also spent just a bit of time looking at the 50% limits of a Y37 test. Artie and I are a 36 of 37 match, and his terminus is Cap William Myers, through George. 36/37 at the 50% confidence average 4 generation apart. Folks who test like us are about equally as close or closer than 4 gens, and 50% past that point. Now, the point to remember in this kind of calculation, is that George Myers could be Charles’s father in this deduction. We cannot exclude him as a potential father. George is 23 years old when Charles is born, and if we assume a Northampton PA birth, then yes, George fathering Charles is possible.

So, the 4 gens are: George, William, William’s dad, William’s granddad. At the 50% mark, Charles Sr is, compared to William Sr, his grandchild, his child, his nephew, or his first cousin, once removed.

At this point, there is still plenty of regular genealogy and genetic genealogy to do.

Big Y tested. R-BY15581. Z38300+

I had decided that if my work gave me a bonus, I’d have the BIG Y done. It was frustrating not having a known terminal SNP, and I wasn’t sure what else I could do to get there. Just, BIG Y is expensive. In this case, I’d say it was worth it.

Turns out the TX Myers Y-DNA is rare. We were the first family with a BIG-Y test that was Z39300 positive that claimed continental European origins. All others were from the Britain/Scotland/Ireland cluster. So that means we’re pretty unique, and that we changed, in a small way, the Y-DNA tree. The data are here. And that small portion of the tree changed when our data were added.

We’re not the only family with this cluster. There are close STR matches on familytree that likely have it as well. Some are found in the Feichts of Pennsylvania, and perhaps other families as well.

That’s the good news. The bad news is that genetic genealogy is illegal in France and Germany, and so we’re not going to be given help from overseas. It’s going to require more grunt work on our side of the Atlantic.

Intro to the project

Ok, my family are the Myers from Texas, and a specific branch of the Myers from Texas.  My parents were born in Granbury, Texas, in Hood County Texas. On my father’s side, we have been told from time immemorial that we’re descended from Germans, if you go back far enough. But is that true?

Traditional genealogy was the hobby of my Dad’s brother Tom, recently deceased. He could take us back to Charles Myers, born 1789 in Somerset, PA, and died 1857 in Missouri. Beyond that? I recall a comment on the Internet that Charles was a veteran of the War of 1812 and that is dad was Jacob Myers, a Revolutionary War veteran, from Philadelphia. Poking around various trees on Ancestry, I find that Jacob Myers is called Jacob Myers II on some, with a father named Jacob Myers. His birth is given as 1720, sometimes in England, sometimes not. My Dad’s brother was not sure that Jacob and Jacob II were real (see comment below).

 

So, are there ways we can trace back to Germany? The above is where traditional genealogy has gotten us. My father, some six years ago, was given as a birthday present a Y-DNA test from Family Tree DNA. It was a STR (Y-67) test, which if I understand correctly, is a check of hypervariable regions of the Y chromosome and thus useful for finding relations anywhere from 5 to 30+ generations back. Using this, my Dad found a relative named Ross, whose parental line gets lost in North Carolina in the 18th century.  Given how close they are on the 67 test, Ross and my Dad have a common ancestor perhaps 12 generations back, or less (88% by the 8th generation). But that isn’t the leap to get the family to Germany.

These days I’m more interested in defining the Myers haplogroup. I did the Nat Geo Geno 2.0+ test. but for Europeans it has holes. The biggest of these is the lack of the P312 SNP, which is a major European branch. So I’m waiting on more testing at the moment. We are P310 positive, according to Nat Geo.

Anyway, this is enough to introduce you to the problem.  I’ll have more specifics for later.

  • The Jacob Myers comment probably needs elaboration. The Jacob Myers that gets pointed to is a real person, but how that person, born in Maryland and supposedly in Philadelphia for some time, gets out to Somerset PA (closer to Pittsburgh, really) to father Charles is really the trick. Sometimes the ancient genealogies contain a lot of wishful thinking, like mothers that give birth at 3 years of age (yes, I’ve seen that too in various records).